Star Trek Picard/Discovery - Discussion Thread

[Jeff T]

I added my brief thoughts to the short post. I was not going to waste any more time listening to the entire 1 1/2 hours of nonsense, just the segmented link.

Alex Peters rationale would have Spock or any Vulcan rolling in their grave. 

I disagreed with virtually all of the points he raised or tried to defend.

[Kheren]

Two possibilities regarding this asinine defense of Kurtzman's fully demonstrated incompetence and hackness:

1- He wants a job at CBS. Either he thinks Kurtzman is there for the long run and fears to antagonize the boss; or hope to replace him so not burning bridges with CBS... and/or their little fanbase they have left.

2- Part of his deal with CBS to allow him to do Axanar comes not only with the obligation to avoid trashing Kurtzmantrek, but actually support it.

It may also be both options.

Anyone watching Kurtzmantrek, and even more watch what HE is doing, immediately sees that what he says is utter nonsense. He is shilling, nothing more, nothing less; a much practiced sport in Hollywood and Hollywood media these days.

[Jeff T]

Oh.... the agony...

Exclusive: Star Trek’s Discovery And Picard Coming To Netflix (US) according to https://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/ent/star-trek-netflix-cbs.html

"All four (series) have struggled to find an audience and while some might blame the quality of the shows (yes!!!), my sources at CBS tell me they think the big problem is getting the word out about CBS All-Access."

Lol... dream on boys.

"According to my exclusive source, CBS believes that by offering up some of its Star Trek shows to Netflix users, viewers who are already primed to spend money on streaming, they’ll be able to get crossover to CBS All-Access.  So they’re in negotiations to bring Star Trek: Discovery, Star Trek: Picard, and Star Trek: Lower Decks to Netflix."

What will they do if they continue to be ignored or receive even more negative feedback there? Blame Netflix or its audience?

[Kheren]

latest news is that Netflix did NOT take anything Kurtzmantrek, even after Kurtzman did everything to shove them down it's throat... and even after CBS lowering prices... again... and again... and again... until Amazon Prime did take them because now they were so cheap.

So it's Amazon Prime, already having Picard, that will take the burden. Netflix already had STD and the Short Treks and they passed on Picard and Lower Decks from the get go. Strange New Worlds is in production but with no distributor yet... and word is Kurtzman is NOT involved on this one, that Akiva Goldsman helms it.

The CBS AllAccess crossover ploy is fake; CBS AllAccess is to be scrapped in favor of Paramount Plus. this has been confirmed for months now because CBS AllAccess is a failure and Paramount wants to restructure everything since the CBS Viacom merger.

The fact that they are selling their flagship content and prime IP to another distributor means CBS is truly in dire financial straights... or maybe they plan to dump the white elephant in preparation for a full reboot of the franchise?

More to come for sure. 

[Sorripto]

I have not enjoyed the new Star Trek, and old Star Trek is on Netflix but I have enjoyed the other offerings on CBS All Access. I was able to catch my wife up on the shows in the Belisaroverse and watch a handful of old CBS cartoons. It is funny that I did not subscribe with the intent of watching any of their flagship shows but I do not entirely regret having CBS All Access. 

[Kheren]

Yeah it's not CBS that is a failure; only Kurtzmantrek is.

Although if they keep hitching on this trainwreck, they might turn into one... How much longer they can feed this white elephant is anybody's guess.

[Jeff T]

Someone responded to my disagreement in that video in which Alec Peters gushed in Kurtzman's defense about these "alternative" new "Trek" offerings being dished out. Their counterpoint to my take starts out:

"If you don't think the first 2 seasons of TNG and DS9 sucked, then your entire viewpoint of Trek in general is in question."

It goes downhill from there.

I welcome others who have the inclination to join in on that thread and post your thoughts/examples about this issue.

https://youtu.be/gnFuYw0TX34

[Kheren]

Well I gave them my usual, long-winded answer. And to bore you with it, here it is:


Well, I hate to be on the other side of the fence to you Mr Peters, especially considering the great work, the true Trek you are offering so far and how much I respect your effort in offering us real Star Trek, but I disagree with just about every word you uttered here.

As but a sample, I will say this:

First off, lets break a myth: the ''1st season of Trek sucks'' myth.

TOS good 1st season episodes: Where No Man Has Gone Before; The Naked Time; The Enemy Within; The Corbomite Maneuver; The Menagerie part 1 & 2; Balance of Terror; The Galileo Seven; Arena; Tomorrow is Yesterday; Space Seed; A taste of Armageddon; Court martial; City on the Edge of Forever ; Errand of Mercy; The Devil in the Dark

TNG good 1st season episodes; Encounter at Farpoint part 1 & 2; The Big Goodbye; Datalore; 11001001; Heart of Glory; Conspiracy

DS9 good 1st season episodes; Emissary part 1 & 2; Past Prologue; Captive Pursuit; Dax; Battle Lines; Duet; In The Hands of The Prophets

VOY good 1st season episodes; Caretaker part 1 & 2; Parallax; Time And Again; Phage; The Cloud; Eye O The Needle; Emanations; Faces; Jetrel

ENT good 1st season episodes; Broken Bow part 1 & 2; Fight or Flight; Strange New Worlds; The Andorian Incident; Cold Front ; Dear Doctor; Sleeping Dogs; Shadows of P'Jem; Shuttlepod One; Detained; Vox Sola; Shockwave

According to Empire, 24% of the best episodes of all time of all series together are 1st season episodes; According to Collider, 50% of the entire TOS series best episodes are in the first season alone and some are among the very best of the whole franchise. Wikipedia reports that 50% of ENT, 56% of VOY and 59% of TOS first season episodes as good ones, more than a few as best of the series and even best among all series.

However, only 35% of DS9 and 31% of TNG's first season; and the few truly bad ones like TNG Code of Honor and DS9 Move Along Home are indeed really bad. That is where the myth must come from, as these are probably the two most beloved series of the franchise, at least by the younger audience. And they took some time to find their proper footing for various reasons, including a directors and a writers strike at the start of TNG in 1986-87.

So, saying all Star Trek shows sucked in their first seasons is simply bullshit; to excuse the current mediocrity we are offered. And Kurtzmantrek doesn't have a writers or directors strike to justify it.


Second, if justifying two crappy first seasons is by saying all the others were just as bad, then not only are you confirming what you do is crap, but that you can't or won't do better; or both. Hard to find a lamest excuse than this. It looks even lamer when considering other TV shows. Was Game of Thrones' first two seasons crap? Or the Handmaid's Tale? Or The Expanse? Or the Orville?


Third, even if this bad argument would even be considered, the fact is DIS is in it's third season and it's worse than ever. Their next show, Picard, was worse, and the third one, Lower Decks worse still. So far, out of 5 seasons of Kurtzmantrek, it's 0 in 5... and let's not talk about the awful, asinine Short Treks.

Don't beleive me? I live in Canada and here all of Kurtzmantrek is on cable TV so we have actual viewership numbers. Look it up. What will you find? Discovery lost half it's audience by the end of season 1 and it went downhill ever since. Picard lost half it's audience by mid season. Lower Decks lost half it's audience after the first episode. In contrast, ALL of Classic Trek has been shown daily for many hours on end for no less than the last decade on the exact same channel, and still gather a respectable audience. None of Kurtzmantrek shows have been aired again after their first run. 


On a last note about episodic vs season arc; episodic gives you the chance to come up with a better episode after a crappy one, so everyone will forget a ''Miri'' if you bring up a ''City On The Edge Of Forever'' afterwards. On a seasonal arc, if you are lucky enough to have a ''Scorpion'' story and a good showrunner that will not ruin it, you're golden; bit if what you have is a ''Treshold'', even with a good showrunner, all you will have is a crappy season. Watch Game of Thrones to see how a brilliant story can fall once you loose your good writer and showrunners don' t know what they are doing.

As far as all of Kurtzmantrek is concerned, there lies, not their first, but their worse problem; forget that it is anything BUT Star Trek; their story is at best a bad rip off of other better works, at worse lame and lazy teenage-emo soap opera first draft writing. They are bad shows because they are bad stories about bad characters and badly told. That they usurp the name of a show celebrated for quality, awe-inspiring storytelling and memorable, inspiring characters brilliantly told and still resonating half a century later, it just makes it all worse. It's not Axanar. It's a show called Star Trek made by people who don't know and don't care about Star Trek for people who don't like and don't watch Star Trek.

I only look at your work, Mr Peters, and see exactly how great, faithful and meaningful these shows could have been if YOU had helmed them... instead of the man who explicitely said that he never liked or watched Star Trek. The man that said at Comicon2020 that he doesn't care about it except as a platform for his ideology. The man who killed the Sony Spider-Man franchise and the Universal Monsterverse with just one movie. The man who was hired by the man who killed ENT just as it was starting to soar because he hates sci-fi to begin with.

You like it? Fine, good for you. Enjoy it. But that's you. Me, well, I just told you


EDIT: Oh and, Jeff, for your detractor who questions you judgment; send him the list I just give here and question HIS (or HER) judgment

[Jeff T]

 Kheren, I added your entire statement in response, which I thoroughly enjoyed.  

Reading through the other responses as well, the majority are not fans of the bastardized Trek nor of Peter's weak and erroneous defense of it.

[Kheren]

As of now, even fans of the show are turning on it. So no wonder there are few in there that would agree with Peters, especially if they are looking forward to what Peters himself is offering.

Just look at the like and dislikes; only 100 likes ahead... which in Youtube context, is basically a tie between those who agrees and those who don't. because I myself hesitated to push the dislike button, I also suspect many pushed the likes button, not because they agree, but because they don't want to diss on Peters or at least want to say they respect his right to have his own opinion... or understand where he is coming from (and wants to go).

To me, it is obvious the man is shilling; as I said, either because of a court agreement or in the hope of getting a job at CBS (Kurtzman's job) or both. No way an obvious real Trek fan like him who gave us a masterpiece like Prelude to Axanar would look at STP or Pukehard and say they are good. It would be like Dave Brubeck or Lewis Armstrong hearing a monkey bang on kitchenware and blowing into a gazoo and call it good jazz.

I would even wonder if Peters didn't get a call from CBS about making this opinion piece... They are certainly desperate to try to get some good word for their sinking disaster that has already gobbled up millions.