Star Trek Picard Season 1 - Discussion Thread - *SPOILERS*

[Athos]

                                                                        ** RED ALERT **
Spoilers are in this post and thread.  If you have not watched the latest episode of Star Trek Picard and wish to be surprised, do not read any further. 

Episode 1: Remembrance

I am so amazed by episode 1 of Star Trek Picard.  The opening sequence…how awesome is it that ST: Picard (STP) started the same way that Encounter at Farpoint began; exterior shot of the D, zooming into a room to show Picard!  It’s also quite poetic that TNG ended by zooming out from the poker game, then from the exterior shot of the D.  So STP is beautifully picking up right from where TNG left off.  I also LOVED the “Blue Skies” music which is what Data sang at the Riker-Troi wedding.

Three observations from that opening scene:
1) They did a fine job reproducing Ten Forward but it somehow wasn’t quite right.  Looking at images from TNG, the bottom of the windows appear to be too high; also the lighting is not quite right…it’s too bright.  I think what’s throwing me off is that they lit up the interior window frames; you never saw that on TNG (not that bright). 

2) Ten forward is supposed to be the very center of the forward hull of the saucer section, yet when they zoomed into the ship, it was off-center to the port side.

3) Data’s First Contact uniform; I was not happy that wardrobe allowed the mustard yellow zipper pull to dangle loosely outside of the shirt like that.  You never saw the zipper pull in any TNG movie or DS9 episode.  I’m familiar with that costume shirt; there is a way to zip it and pin the zipper pull up using the eye hook so that the pull is not visible.  C’mon wardrobe…you can do better!

LOVE Chateau Picard; the look and feel and design of the house is beautiful.  This is also exactly where we would expect to find a retired, old Jean-Luc Picard who has always cherished family history.  After Picard was separated from the Borg and was healing, he went back to his family’s vineyard.  So this makes perfect sense.  Tea…early gray…decaf.  LOL  Well, Picard is getting older.

It sends a powerful message that Picard has two Romulan caretakers in his house.  On a side note, I love this story point; it fits Picard’s character that he values life, every being is a person, and that he really went above and beyond to help the Romulan people and they loved him for it.  Remember that the Romulans had their own honor code and so it is very reasonable that some Romulans felt indebted to the man that tried to help them and therefore pledged their services to Picard for the remainder of his life.  Enjoyed the banter between Picard and his caretakers, and Picard speaking French!  It also shows that not all Romulans were militant which previously that is pretty much all that we saw. 

Okay, moving on to the late 24th century Boston; first off, I love Boston so thank you for the shout out to one of my favorite cities.  I recognized the Ferengi symbol on the one building and “FNN” flashed on another building (Federation News Network); I didn’t recognize any of the other markings.  Thoughts on what they could be?   

We first see the assassins in Dahj’s apartment.  At one point, one of them was speaking in a foreign tongue and the other said “Speak English”.  I’m assuming that was Romulan that was being spoken since later on in the episode, Picard states that the attackers were Romulan.  Also, did you get a good look at the knife that was used?  That is very derivative of the knives that Shinzon used in Nemesis.  In my opinion, the transporters used by these assassins were Federation based which calls into question why a Romulan hit squad is using Federation transporters, or is even able to operate so freely on Earth.

Theory: It is telling that these assassins were dressed in all-black AND were using Federation transporter tech.  My thought is that Section 31 is alive and well and behind not only the seek-and-destroy synthetics operation, but also of the Utopia Planitia shipyards attack.  Why?  Think about what is revealed during the interview with the reporter.  Synthetics took down the defensive grid from the inside and attacked and destroyed the shipyards, killing more than 90,000 people.  Starfleet does not know why the synthetics turned.  I think Section 31 somehow programed them to carry out the attack.  Why?  Think about it.  Section 31 is all about protecting the Federation, from itself if necessary.  Remember what Section 31 did leading up to and during the Dominion War.  The Romulans are the Federation’s oldest enemy, yet now the Federation was spending all of these resources to go save them (10,000 warp ferries).  It took Jean-Luc Picard convincing Starfleet/the Federation to get that operation going, meaning that originally, they did not want to help even though the Romulans were asking for it.  Section 31 saw an opportunity to eliminate a threat (the Romulan Empire) and destroyed the rescue fleet to do so.  Because they used synthetics to carry out the attack, they convinced the remaining Romulans, and the Federation, that synthetics were their enemy and got the Romulans to join them in seeking out and destroying any remaining synthetics.  Perhaps Section 31 saw the mass-produced synthetics as a growing threat as well and saw an opportunity to take out 2 enemies with one action. 

Opening Title: It was different, but good.  When I heard the flute, I immediately thought of The Inner Light and loved the tie in with Picard’s character.  (I noticed this before I watched Wil Wheaton’s after-show.)

The Interview: A perfect way to try to fill in some of the gaps between Captain Picard commanding the Enterprise E and now.  Loved how they showed all of the various pictures of Picard which acknowledges TNG and the movies.  One of the first things that we learn is that the Romulan star went supernova.  This is telling as it ties the events that instigated JJ Abram’s 2009 Star Trek into the “Prime” universe. 

Tying back to what I stated before, the interview establishes that the Romulans asked for the Federation’s help when they knew that their star would go supernova.  It also establishes that Picard championed the cause to help them when “many” felt that there were better uses of the Federation’s resources than by helping the Federation’s oldest enemy. 

It really threw me for a loop when the FNN Interviewer emphasized “Romulan lives” after Picard stated that there were millions of lives at stake.  This, in combination with Picard’s statement that he left Starfleet because it was no longer Starfleet is PROFOUND as to the mindset of the people of the Federation.  Picard also stated that the Federation/Starfleet withdrew, as in withdrew from the larger galaxy, withdrew to within their own borders.  The attack and destruction of Utopia Planitia would be like a 9-11 event; instead of sticking to the principles of the Federation and Starfleet, to seek out new life and new civilizations, the Federation abandoned the rescue of the Romulan people and abandoned the rest of the galaxy.  Had they also become xenophobic to any non-Federation member species?  Or was it just towards Romulans?  Picard’s response to the reporter’s comment “Romulan lives” was PERFECT; “No.  Lives.” as in life is life; living beings are living beings. 

Next the reporter stated that “[Picard] left the Enterprise to command the rescue armada.”  This is likely in reference to the Enterprise E as nothing indicates that the Odyssey-class Enterprise F had been built yet.  If you are confused, the IDW comics that tell part of the story of Admiral Picard’s rescue mission, and has been accepted as cannon, show that he commanded an odyssey-class starship (USS Verity).  The odyssey-class starship was created by a fan through a starship design contest for Star Trek Online which used that design for the USS Enterprise F. 

I also find it interesting that Picard went from a captain, commanding the USS Enterprise E, to a 4-star admiral.  The comics reveal that Picard had been leading the Romulan evacuation for over 4 years, so he could have had a lower admiral rank, then pinned on 4-star a while later, but that is still really fast.  That said, Janeway went from captain to vice admiral instantly when she returned from the Delta Quadrant, so precedent does allow for Picard to go from captain to admiral.  Additionally, Picard could have been a 1-star commodore while still commanding the Enterprise.  Commodore Matt Decker commanding the USS Constellation from TOS, so the precedent is there.

Moving on… the pyramids vrs Dunkirk.  What outstanding writing to have Picard correct the reporter and use Dunkirk as a parallel, especially with the film that just came out. 

The reporter tells us that a group of synthetics brought down the planetary defense shield and hacked the planetary defense grid, then completely destroyed the shipyard.  Theory: The comics establish that Commander Geordi LaForge was in charge of, or at least working at, Utopia Planetia; does this mean that LaForge is dead?  The reporter also tells us that “Mars remains on fire to this day” which is a HUGE blow to Starfleet.  Utopia Planetia was the main shipyards for Starfleet…not the only one, but a major one.  Now, there are orbital facilities, of course, so Mars could still be used for building starships, which we see in clips for future episodes.

Sir Patrick Stewart’s performance during this interview was absolutely amazing.  The way he looked, his tone of voice, the pure emotion that came across…so powerful.  From the point where Picard stated “because it was no longer Starfleet”, the iron will and experience and knowledge of Picard came out to shine.  By the end, I was moved by the raw conviction of the man.  This is yet another amazing Jean-Luc Picard speech that we all will remember. 

The statement that “it was no longer Starfleet” is also very revealing as to the mood and mentality of today’s Federation and Starfleet.  We’re looking at a much darker Federation than we have seen before, one in which Picard disagreed with so much that he resigned over.  The Mars attack deeply altered the Federation; banning synthetic lifeforms!?  So much for seeking out new life. 

Dream sequence #2: Data is painting in the vineyard.  Very happy that the writers acknowledged this huge aspect of data.  Also happy to see the TNG uniforms.  I am 99% certain that they are ANOVOS TNG uniforms as I own a premium version of that costume and it looks exact.

Starfleet Archives: How AWESOME was Picard’s quantum archive.  We see many items from Picard’s past; the models of the Stargazer, Enterprise D & E, as well as the Enterprise E Captain’s yacht.  Side note…really?  The Enterprise E yacht is more prominently displayed than the Enterprise E or the D!?  C’mon!  We also see a Klingon D’k tahg and Bat’leth on display.  The D’k tahg is explainable as this could be the blade that Picard wore as Worf’s cha'Dich (TNG: Sins of the Father) and kept in his quarters on the Enterprise D.  That said, I do not know why Picard had a Bat’leth as there was nothing previously seen where Picard was given the sword (possibly a gift from Worf?).  We also see the famous book of Shakespeare that was in Picard’s Enterprise D ready room and the famous Captain Picard Day banner.  It’s interesting that Picard kept that banner as he professed to hating having children aboard ship.  I think it proves that Picard was really a softy at heart.

Picard also seemed to have several trophies or awards throughout the space; I didn’t recognize any of them…perhaps they do not have any particular meaning beyond the fact that Admiral Picard was highly decorated and celebrated.  Thoughts? 

We jump to Paris; I like seeing all the air traffic as this is what one would expect to see in an advanced civilization (Star Wars, The Fifth Element, Jetsons, etc.).  I thought it interesting to see that the old streets were still there and maintained (freshly painted lines) so perhaps there is still ground transport.  The call to Dahj’s mother was intriguing. Was Dahj’s mother artificial herself or was this communication intercepted (by Section 31?) in order to direct Dahj to where they wanted her to go.  Did you notice that little glitch after Dahj questioned how her mom knew that she had gone to Picard? 

We then see Dahj hack the Starfleet network in order to track Picard.  Surely, this could not be Lt Commander Data’s old codes as Starfleet would have invalidated them upon Data’s death.  But, hacking skills could be programmed, especially if the programmer knew about the Starfleet network, such as Bruce Maddox.  We also get to see Picard in his Admiral uniform which is cool.

When Dahj finds Picard, the ensuing conversation assures us that somehow, Data’s essence has been engrained into Dahj and that Dahj is an android.  It also establishes that Dahj is Data’s daughter; that Dahj was created based on Data’s vision, not necessarily by Data himself.  The conversation also establishes how close Picard and Data were and how much Picard cherished that friendship.

The second attack establishes that the attackers were Romulan, as well as Dahj’s superior strength and reflexes.  We see that the attackers were Romulan.  The tactics used by the attackers further strengthens my theory that it is Section 31 behind the attacks.  The exploding weapon; the corrosive acid; the suicide attack; it all smacks of Section 31 and not Starfleet.  It would also be in-line with the Tal Shiar and their methods.

The Daystrom Institute/Bruce Maddox: We knew Commander Bruce Maddox from the Season 2 TNG episode Measure of a Man.  We all didn’t like him in that episode for how he treated our beloved Data, but Data saw potential in Maddox’s work and stayed in touch with him over the years.  We know this because in the TNG season 4 episode Data’s Day, Data was writing to Commander Maddox.  Picard’s visit to the Daystrom Institute confirms that Maddox worked there and that the androids that destroyed Utopia Planetia came from Maddox/the Institute.  Further, it establishes that Bruce Maddox disappeared after the ban on synthetics was established.  We find out that B-4 is in the lab which gives a clear path to how Maddox got at least some of Data’s neural net as Data attempted to download his neural net into B-4 before Data’s death in Nemesis.  The conversation also established a theory that an entire code (Data’s code and possibly memories) could be recreated from a single positronic neuron.  Fractal Neuronic Cloning.  And this sets the stage for exactly what Dahj and her sister is/was and the mission that Picard is about to embark upon.  Go find and protect Data’s offspring.

In the final scene, we are brought to the Romulan Reclamation Center.  First of all, what in the world does that mean?  Reclamation Center!?  Are they trying to reclaim former Romulan Borg drones?  And how in the world did the Romulans get a Borg Cube!?  And what are all those satellites around the cube?  Mines?  Sensors?  Obviously this sets the stage for Seven of Nine to enter the story, but wow.  Another thought…the Borg are synthetic life forms.  Did the Federation completely defeat the Borg or are they still a threat? 

In the scenes from future episodes, we see Utopia Planetia, we see other androids, and at least one active Borg, as well as Seven of Nine, Riker, and Troi.  It’s going to be an exciting season!

[Jeff T]

Wow Athos, thanks for taking the time and putting thought and knowledge into creating such a thorough and compelling description of this first episode!

I enjoyed it too for many of the details and reasons you so eloquently pointed out. I was genuinely surprised by the overall quality of the episodes, despite some mostly minor imperfections.

I just hope that the writing stays strong and maintains integrity throughout the remainder of the season. It has been the worst thing about everything else that has been offered since Enterprise. Star Trek needs to be compelling, character driven and have a moral compass of some sort to guide it.

I am really looking forward to the next episode. Meanwhile, I am going sit down to watch the premiere episode for a second time.

[Athos]

Thanks Jeff.  Honestly, my brain would not stop analyzing the episode until I wrote everything down, so it was as much for me as it was for everyone else's benefit!  If you haven't already, I encourage everyone to read the Star Trek Picard: Countdown comics (1 & 2 are available now, #3/3 releases 29 Jan).  There is also a book that is getting published on 11 Feb that discusses events leading into episode 1 of Star Trek Picard. 

[Kheren]

Glad for you you enjoyed it.

Me, I was so disappointed the only thing I truly enjoyed about it was that I could see it for free on cable TV (here in Canada) and so can escape the undeserved hype.

I too enjoyed the first 3 minutes despite being riddled with bad research and carelessness (as you detailed so well) any true fan of Star Trek spotted immediately but somehow the people making this  couldn't care less for. Sir Patrick is as excellent an actor as he always is; it is so regrettable that he is now willingly and deliberately working to destroy his legacy (by his own admission). Now more than ever I undderstand why he insisted for that dune buggy in Nemesis...

Three good opening minutes... with a great line... and then, we are served as a first event the Assassin's Creed rip-off scene; already a few minutes in and we have the most asinine abduction operation in already well- idiocy-laden Kurtzmantrek; Romulans abductors beaming in right there on Earth yet raising no alarm (Redshirts on the job I guess) to meaniglessly kill random boyfriend (just to show how mean they are) then just putting a bag on her head as if this would stop her from ''activating'' into Black Widow mode (which they knew and which she did).

All the while, any 1st year Starfeet Cadet leading this operation would simply have beamed her up into a cell (if they want her) or straight into space (if they want her dead) especially if she is that dangerous. They had no trouble beaming down so why not beam her up? See you in episode 2... But no; they go down, get killed by the known superwoman and alert her so that now she can alert the authorities, or Starfleet... no, forget the sensical thing to do; go to old winemaker Picard you know nothing about except seeing him in a ''vision.'' Oh and we learn later on that the Romulans already have an exact twin of her already working willingly for them... but they have to kidnap her.

Who wrote this crap?

Picard is portrayed as a retired old man in a fictional French locale (Chateau Picard is the name of his wine brand, not a locale in France; his family lived in Navarre, a real place; oops, sorry, canon is irrelevant here). He is attended by 2 Romulans (as if this makes any sense except as plot contrivances) and about to be interviewed on TV in a very 2020-style dishonest racist reporter trap (because this show wants to be relevant to the Brexit and Trump era; their own words).

Then we learn that we are in the Abramsverse (Romulus destroyed); the Federation is a dystopia (revolt of synthetic people; ignore Measure of A Man and Photons Be Free); Starfleet can build 10,000 ships in a matter of months (starships are as cheap and easy as cars it seems) to rescue a few millions... (That's all? on the 2 planets- Romulan Homeworld?) and as if the Romulans did not have themselves the ressources to do so (and yet they could threaten both the Federation and the Klingon Empire at the same time for centuries).

And because of their loss of those instant-baked ships to a we-know-not-what-for revolt, Starfleet simply packs up and go home, goodbye  Rommies... because, you know, they are the ancient enemy and now petty Starfleet decides it will not forget that... and neither does racist UFP corporate media. So, instead of fighting this as he did countless times, old worn out Picard gives up, retires on family grounds to die... until unknown wonder girl shows up to spontaneously respark the spirit of this broken, defeated man with a schizophrenic sounding story he latches to immediately.

Who wrote this crap?

As if this was not enough, we are then served a true Mary Sue story; a dear innocent young girl with a dark secret and that nobody knows instantly gets the sympathy of our hero and his attendants who will move heaven and earth to help her; even as she shows herself a bonafide superwoman. Oh but noooo! she dies from xenomorph acid blood spitted out by a dying Romulan... which also somehow overload a phaser rifle... But lo! She has a twin sister! Ah the famous Kurtzman plot twists... And Data painted them both decades ago and gave those two paintings to Picard, calling them... ''Daughter.'' And no, they are not Lawl.

But Mary Sue is (are) more than just  an android (???) premoniton; they result from cloning (???) a single Positronic neuron (???) taken who knows where (Data was disintegrated in Romulan outer space; B4 is NOT Data;; oh sorry, that's canon; irrelevant here. But in the episode they admit the Daystrom Institute failed to recreate Soong's work... and forgot about Lawl, Lore and Soong's wife). That single bit from Data's hard drive somehow contains not only ''all memories, knowledge and personality'' in a confused ''past life'' way, but also somehow magically transfers superhuman physical android attributes into a mere human body. Oh yes, these are twins with positronic brains within flesh and blood human frames in pure Frankensteinian style... And then, somehow, separated and let loose or lost those two miracles of science, one becoming a bland normie living in the Federation and the other somehow in Romulan Space working for them on a salvaged Borg Cube.

Who wrote this crap?


One (the only one) thing STP has over STD is that now at least the characters are not despicable from the start. But again, we're back to a Mary Sue story, complete ignorance and/or disregard of canon but exploiting Trek bits as hooks, promoting the dystopian Kurtzmantrek in the Abramsverse and with writing about the level of a 10 year old fanboy.

Oh but the music is good.

So, as you can guess, I did not enjoy it at all.

[Athos]

Wow Kheren; I must say that I am shocked by the raw negativity of your review.  I’ll grant that we are all entitled to our opinions and viewpoints, but wow.  Not that I am going to try and change your mind as it seems that is not possible, but I did notice several points that were, well, wrong. 
 
First and foremost, STP does NOT occur in the Abramsverse.  The Romulan supernova occurred in the Prime Universe; the Abramsverse starts when the Prime Universe Ambassador Spock and Nero travel back in time, change the past which then creates an alternate (Abramsverse) universe.  Now, you can be upset with the 2009 movie, you can hate it and everything it did, and you can even hate the choice for STP to choose to use the Romulan supernova event that the 2009 movie portrayed in the Prime Universe for the starting point of the show, but you cannot claim that STP is in the Abramsverse (or you can, but would be wrong).
 
Second, Admiral Picard did not simply give up and leave Starfleet; he was FORCED to resign from Starfleet over his vehement advocacy for continuing the Romulan evacuation after Utopia Planetia was destroyed.  After the armada of transport ships and Utopia Planetia was destroyed by the synthetics (androids), Starfleet/the Federation decided to give up.  Admiral Picard demanded that they continue or he would resign; they forced him out.
 
Have you read the IDW Star Trek Picard comics?  There are 2 out now with the 3rd coming out on the 29th.  In them you learn that Admiral Picard has been leading the fight to help relocate the Romulans over the course of 4 years, not months.  And yes, it is plausible for 24th century science to know well in advance if a star is going to go supernova.  Given that timeline, and the fact that these ships are likely more like cargo haulers than lush ships of the line, it is entirely plausible for the UFP to construct 10,000 of these ships.  Think Model T assembly line; all ships are the exact same some you can crank out a ton of them quite rapidly.  Additionally, the evacuation was for hundreds of millions of Romulans (and Remans one would hope), not just a “few million”.  Another correction, it was not for just 2 planets, but multiple worlds that would be affected by the destruction of the Hobus star.
 
*Sidebar…in the books which describe the events leading up to the 2009 movie, it was established that the Hobus supernova would expand well beyond just the Romulan system due to some hyper reaction of materials in that system.  I think this is a stretch (a supernova impacting multiple star systems), but if STP is picking up on the event as established by the 2009 movie, then they likely have accepted this as well.  As for me, just assume that the Romulans have colonized multiple planets in their home system.
 
One point that I agree with you on is where is the Romulan Fleet?  Why are they not evacuating the various effected worlds…or maybe they are?  Think about it…A galaxy class starship has the ability to evacuate roughly 10,000 people at a time (jam-packed).  Even though the D’deridex warbird is twice the size, it’s mostly hollow.  Let’s just assume it is equivalent and can evacuate 10,000 at most.  How long would it take the Romulan Fleet to evacuate hundreds of millions?  Likely more time than they had, hence needing the Federation’s help. 
 
Romulan Assassins Creed hit squad… did you read my theory about Section 31?  Obviously, these assassins were getting inside help, hence why they were able to beam in and out (using Federation transporters btw), and never appeared on video feeds.  My Section 31 theory explains a lot. S31 disagreed with the rescue effort and all of the resources being expended for that; they did not want the Federation’s oldest enemy to be saved and continue to be a threat, so THEY are the ones that reprogrammed the synthetics to attack Utopia Planetia (UP) and THEY are the ones intent on hunting down all synthetics within the Federation.  Given that the Romulans lost millions of their people thanks to the synthetic attack, they are pissed and easy to use as assassins.  Boom…plausible.
 
Why would the assassins not just beam up Dahj?  They may not have known that she was actually a synthetic until after they put those scanners on her.  They may have strongly suspected, but maybe not for certain.  But you have a point; they could have just beamed her into a cell, THEN verified that she was who they wanted.  The boyfriend was important only because he is the same species as Queen Po in Discovery.  As for why go after Dahj when they had Soji on the Borg Cube?  Simple…after the destruction of the Romulan homeworld, the Romulans scattered.  Remember, their society is built upon a caste system; it is more than plausible to say that one faction doesn’t necessarily know what all of the other factions are doing.
 
As for the 2 Romulan attendants (Laris and Zhban); again, did you not read my post?  Remember that the Romulans have an honor code as seen in Balance of Terror (TOS) and multiple other episodes of the various Star Trek series.  Picard fought hard to rescue the Romulan people and sacrificed his career in that attempt.  While I’m certain not all Romulans care about that, SOME would.  Laris and Zhban would likely be common people, not military or government; maybe they were farmers.  So it’s entirely plausible that they are there.
 
I do not understand your issue with Chateau Picard or Navarre, France as both of those locations were established as cannon in TNG.  STP is using canon that was established in TNG, so again, I don’t get your rant. 
 
I find your use of the word “racist” to be incorrectly used.  The Federation is comprised of hundreds of different races; the reporter had multiple species on her team.  She didn’t emphasize “Romulan lives” to be racist; she said it because she was emphasizing “enemy lives”.  That directly parallels with Wester Civilization and the fight against terrorists today.
 
The Measure of a Man only established that Data was not the property of Starfleet and that he had the right to choose; it did not set a precedent for ALL androids.  Photons be Free only established that The Doctor had the same rights as any other author; additionally, the STP Federation had zero issues with holograms as evidenced by Index.  So no, STP did not undo or ignore either of those episodes. 
 
Another observation that you got wrong is thinking that that the Romulan spat up acid blood.  If you watch closely, you can see the Romulan biting down on a capsule which released the acid which he then spit on Dahj.  Suicide pills have been used throughout history and are not outside the bounds of Section 31, the Tal Shiar, or any organization like those.  The phaser rifle exploding had nothing to do with the blood, but likely from a fail-safe device whereby if the trigger is pulled by someone that does not have the correct RFID (worn in their glove or whatever), then the rifle overloads.  We have the technology today where a weapon won’t fire unless the weapon is enabled by a code like that.
 
As for Data, his daughters, and B-4…I’m not certain how you got this part incorrect.  Data downloaded his entire neural net into B-4.  Because B-4 is so less-advanced than Data, most of Data’s code was lost.  MOST, not all.  Maddox copied or took the salvageable code when he left the Daystrom Institute.  The bit about Fractal Neuronic Cloning is a bit of stretch to me, but then Star Trek (ALL of Star Trek) does this all the time.  It’s a bit hypocritical to except some outrageous theories from Trek, but not this one because somehow it crosses the line.  Assuming Maddox has unlocked the Data code from the salvageable parts from B-4, he used that to create the minds of the two sisters.  We’ve already seen in TNG where Soong created a life-like android (Juliana anyone?), so the human-like appearance of these two sisters is very believable.  The only part that is new is that the internal plumbing (blood, organs) is organic.  Is that really such a stretch?  No. 
 
Finally, you stated several times, “who wrote this crap?”  Well, people can say that about some episodes of every single Star Trek series in existence.  Spock’s Brain comes to mind.  How about Code of Honor and Shades of Gray from TNG?  Threshold from Voyager or even the whole concept of being pulled 70,000 light years across the galaxy?  Babel from DS9 was bad.  Who wrote that crap?
 
I’m truly sorry that you did not enjoy it; if you’ve decided to hate it, then hater’s gonna hate no matter what the show does.  As I said, I’m writing this to correct multiple errors stated in your post and to provide plausible explanations for many other areas, based on canon.  As new episodes continue to air, it may start to go downhill for me; we’ll see.  But this series is starting off very well, honors existing canon quite well; they did not disregard or ignore it. And for the record, I do not like Discovery at all.

[Kheren]

As you said my friend, everyone is entilted to his opinion; and you got mine

And I'm sorry to say, you are the one wrong on several points.

1- The Prime Universe IS the Abramsverse. It is NOT the CANON universe. It is Abrams VERSION of the canon universe as his basis for his 2009 movie, which is aimed to reboot the entire franchise to his liking. He said so himself. So yes I can claim it is the Abramsverse as everything in the Abramsverse (Prime and Alternate) is clearly at odds with the canon universe, from the existence of the USS Kelvin right off the bat to the way warp speed becomes light speed, phasers become blasters, transporters can't lock on moving targets, red matter magic goo etc). And now we have xenophobic, warmongering, isolationist UFP with mushroom drives, Singing Spock and his half-sister, Jedi-Vulcan powers and all of STD, and synth revolts that makes no sense and Lore, Lal and Soong's wife never existed... see where this has gone to? Now people can't make heads or tail about what is part of the continuity and what has been deformed by Abrams' sideshow.

This is the great Abrams deception and I regret that you fell for it.


2- Yes he gave up. In every instance where CAPTAIN Picard was confronted with such a situation, he stood firm and didn't even mind his career or his very life to stand for what was right. But not this time. Furthermore, I failed to notice when they actually stated that he was forced to resign. He demanded action under threat of his resignation, they refused and he alone assumed HIS decision; they called out his bluff.  And then he did nothing else and went to sulk in his wine.

So yes, I call this leaving Starfleet and giving up.


3- No I have not read the comics nor ever intend to. I studied cinema as part of my University major and one fundamental law of moviemaking is this: what is not in the movie does not exist. And this could be applied to any form of storytelling. If you need a comics to explain a novel and a novel to explain a movie and a movie to explain a series, that is the texbook example of bad storytelling and greedy exploitation both. You don't need a comics to explain The Menagerie or Best of Both Worlds or the Dominion War arc or the Xindi war arc. If you need comics to explain Picard, then it means the series is severely lacking. 

Therefore, I will accept arguments based on series and movies when they relate to the franchise's continuity, not to make sense of what does not in itself. For example, in TOS Turnabout Intruder, Chekov mention General Order 4 as the only death penalty when it is General order 7 (The Menagerie). That is thus a mistake, plain and simple. A comics rewriting the General orders to ''explain'' this away might be a fun exercise but it's worthless. On the episode, it is still a mistake. When Paris and Janeway ''evolve''into lizards in VOY Treshold, it is just plain silly. No comics trying to explain away this will change that fact because that is what happen on the episode and in the episode it was silly. So any argument starting with ''in the comics... in the novel...'' to explain what does not make sense viewing an episode is moot to me. If the episode makes no sense in itself, comics won't save it for me. the episode is badly written if it needs a comics to explain it.

By the way, it was 60 millions, not hundreds of millions... and even hundreds of millions is pretty low even for ONE planet. We here on Earth alone are already nearly 8 billions in early 21st century. Furthermore, we are talking about an interstellar civilization AT LEAST on par with the Klingon Empire and the Federation... with the largest starships (from the military D'Dridex to a mere Mining ship if you care about Abrams' Prime universe)... and they can't take care of their own evacuation of ONE star system? This so secretive, isolationist empire will let a rival swarm into their territory for the sake of one planet when they have been shown to willingly give their lives unhesitantly for the sake of duty?) Everything in the premise of this storyline is ridiculous, from a realistic perspective to a Star Trek perspective, because it is obviously written with a very limited 21st century Earthbound perspective in every aspect, with no clue about the nature and the scope of the universe they write in.

4- In the same way, it's fine, even interesting, that you have theories about events in the episode and series. But that is YOU doing THEIR writing for THEM. You might be a great writer of Star Trek and I'm fine with that. But that to me only highlights further how bad THEY are and how bad this episode is, if it needs YOU to explain it with a personal hypothesis. And there is no explaining away the sheer stupidity of the two abduction operations as depicted and all the contrivances needed to even make them start to work this way. 

Thus episode 2 just blew out of the water your assumptions on Picard's attendants. They are former Tal Sh'iar agents no less. As for their sense of honor, it has been established in Balance of Terror as being based on duty to the state, not personal duty. Picard is in no way, shape or form related to their state; and despite his noble actions, Romulan duty does not acknowledges this as binding... if we respect canon. Now, an individual Romulan could feel gratitude to someone like Picard for what he did; but Tal Sh'iar operatives renouncing to be operatives for this reason? Two of them? Picard taking the risk of bringing them in himself when he of all people knows how long term they work (ref Ambassador T'Pel in TNG, the one time he was totally outplayed like a fool)? Starfleet even allowing this? And they even smuggled in their illegal scanning equipement? And no one is monitoring them?

There are so many holes in just this little aspect of the story, it boggles the mind how anything in this series can be taken seriously.

5- Where was Chateau Picard ever stated as a place in France? It's the name of a wine and there is no such place in France nor is there a Chateau Picard anywhere in reality or in fiction. And Navarre, a real place, was established as his ''old family stomping grounds.'' Granted it is a minor point but it is these little details, like Gorn skeletons in a ready room, that shows how careless  the creators of this show are regarding credibility and canon.

6- Funny you call me out on using ''racist'' incorrectly. Racism is when you distance yourself from others by their race and uses this to justify your actions and your opinion, especially the opinion that they are inferior lives, not worth of your consideration or effort; EXACTLY what that reporter implied with her insistence with ''ROMULAN lives.'' Your argument is that, here in Quebec, we should not care to help the victims of the Mosque attack of 2017 because they were ''Muslim lives'' and Islam is a major part of today's world terrorism; and that would not be racist? Granted, Islam is not a race so bigotry or xenophobia would be a more approriate term... but you get my point.

However, you are right when you say they want to parallel current events; and THAT alone is enough to understand why this is failed Star Trek. THAT is why those writers are so inept at Star Trek. They distort everything established in this universe to make the UFP like the current 2020 USA and thus, as a visionn of the future, a dystopia, instead of the utopia Star Trek is defined to be. Just about everything falls apart from there alone.

7- Yes STP ignored Measure of a Man and Photons be Free. What those established is more than just the specific cases of Data an The Doctor; it showed that the Federation cares about the rights of ALL forms of sentient life, biological OR synthetic. The episodes with Lal, the Exocomps, the Wesley nanites and Moriarty also emphasised this point. It was further showed that they started to take a care about the accidental emergence of such aritficial lifeforms and how they should treat them. STP just enhance the dystopian nature of their made-up Federation who should be instead careful and welcoming of those. The Synths should have been built with safety protocols to ensure sentience would not emerge; and if it did, immediately take proper care of these new people as they did before. Nope, instead we have a cheap Blade Runner rip-off in a civilization where it (should) makes no sense.

8- You might be right about the acid pill; which is a really asinine way of killing yourself and/or someone close enough to attack, especially in the 24th century. As for the phaser overload, you are theorizing again, doing their writing for them. As it stands, acid would melt down the components and render the weapon inoperative, not blow it up. This is not an atomic reactor. Again, you have to contort in so various ways to explain away all the little and bigger details of this story that I wonder how you can appreciate it. I guess you can see why I don't. I expect more and better than this.

9- More contorsions from your part about the wonder twins. Yes Data downloaded his memory in B4. But the episode itself states it failed because he was an inferior model.
So first stretch: enough was left to recuperate but, as they stated, not all. Now, we know with Alzheimer what happens when you don't have all your memories intact; so no problem here?
Second stetch; positronic neuron, which is an invention of this series as it relates to nothing about positronics as established by Asimov and used later by TNG. But as you say, we can grant some creativity here... if it was only that.
Third stretch: positron is the antiparticle of an electron. So we're taking here about a structure that can carry positive-charged particles; like a copper wire carries electrons. And that would somehow contain memories...
Fourth stretch: a neuron containing all the data of the brain; this is obviously confusion with a cell containing all the DNA of an organism. A neuron does not work at all like this with memory, else Alzheimer would not even be possible. And that mistake brings us to:
Fifth stretch: cloning a positronic neuron; cloning is a biotechnology, not a cybernetic technology; so either they applied the wrong term for replicating or they don't know what they are talking about and think because they put ''neuron'' with ''Positronic'' it becomes organic. Now let's say you replicate one bit from your hard drive; can you reconstitute the content of your entire hard drive? Now you see how far this one alone stretches.
Sixth stretch: they implant these positronic neurons into a human brain. Accepting this Frankensteinian procedure to be even permitted in the Federation, which has laws against augmenting humans, the question is, why? You are altering the nature of a human being, allegedlyeven without her consent and for what? Wasn't Maddox looking to replicate Soong androids to serve the Federation as computers do because they were to him mere machines? And now he would do this?
Seventh stretch: having implanted positronic neurons in a human body will transfer physical android capabilities to that organic frame. That's more than a stretch; that's comic book fantasy, not adult sci-fi.
Eight stretch: these miracle of science would then be let to go free in the universe, with no monitoring at all to boot. They would hide their true origins from them, even go as far as to implant false memories in them (as episode 2 revealed) so that they have no clue of what they are. And they would separate them. Why? Where can you find any sense in this? Not in the episodes for sure.
Ninth stretch: They have never undergone any medical examination that could have showed their positronic neurons? In the 24th century? Working on a classified project like this Borg Cube salvage operation?

Sorry my friend, but this is way too stretched out in too many directions for me. Soong's wife only needed to have us accept her mind had been transfered into a fully android body without her knowledge (with Ira Graves technology no doubt; and he was Soong's teacher) and her leaving an isolated, tranquil civilian life so as to pass undetected because of her past life as a real human being. Here in STP, we are in full MCU mode.

Yes you can call crap on many other Star Trek episodes. If that justifies for you to consume more crap, your choice. Not mine. If Star Trek cannot learn from it's past mistake and even compound on it instead of getting better, then it is truly lost.

And to conclude, no I did not want to hate it. In fact, I really, REALLY wanted this to be good, at least. I really, REALLY hoped it would even be great. I still watch it because I am a hopeless optimist despite everything I know, I have seen and learned to expect (and because it is free for me to watch, truth be told). I was hoping the endorsement of Sir Patrick was a sign of redemption. That the sidelining of Kurtzman, the ousting of Moonves, the utter failure of STD, the death of the Abramsverse at Paramount, the serious admonishings of Netflix and the merchandizing companies, the VIACOM-CBS merger, the coming of Sheri Redstone and Michael Chabon, the participation of former TNG & VOY alumni, were all so many signs that at last Star Trek would AT LEAST start to come back.

And then we got this.


Now I watched the 2nd episode. Not as many stupid things as the first one but compounding on them and in a very boring way. Yes it's still better than the best of STD but is that saying much? Sir Patrick is still a great actor and you can not but like the man in whatever he does. But now we see him rehashing his Logan role, injecting his personal politics within the already woke agenda of Screwing Hideout, portraying a feeble, confused, dying old man,  pushed around and told what to do by just about every woman he meets in a universe that bears no ressemblance to the one he used to live in.

So no, I don't find this series even remotely Star Trek, or just plain enjoyable, intriguing, uplifting or exciting. I find it sad.

[Athos]

To quote Luke Skywalker, “Amazing.  Every word of what you just said, is wrong.”  Well, not every single word as some points are no more or less an opinion, be it coming from you or me, but that quote quickly came to mind as I read your point 1. To be clear before posting my rebuttal, I am not angry or upset with you, Kheren, nor am I attempting to attack you personally.  I am going to be very careful to refute your points (ideas) only, not you.  I must also thank you for numbering your points as it makes it easy to link my rebuttal to your assertions, making life easier on both of us and anyone else following this debate.  Shall we begin?
 
1.  From what you stated, it seems that there is confusion as to what the terms “Prime Timeline” and “Abramsverse” means; let me clarify for you.  The Prime Timeline (or Prime Universe) is established as TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT, including the 6 TOS and 4 TNG films.  That is a universally accepted point of fact; even the Star Trek Encyclopedia by Michael Okuda makes that distinction.  Then comes the 2009 JJ Abrams reboot movie.  The only Prime Timeline event that the 2009 movie established was that a supernova destroyed the Romulan homeworld/system in the late 24th century.  Once Prime Timeline Spock (the one played by Leonard Nimoy) and Nero travelled back in time, it created an alternate timeline (also known as the Kelvin Timeline).  Everything else from the 2009 Star Trek, Star Trek Into Darkness, and Star Trek Beyond takes place in the Kelvin Timeline, also known as the Abramsverse.  Note: As nothing had yet been changed, the look of the USS Kelvin technically was also Prime Universe. 

Then comes Star Trek Discovery.  Again, let me establish that I am not a fan of STD; that fact should only add more credibility to what I am about to say because I begrudgingly admit to it.  STD is meant to occur in the same timeline (the Prime Timeline) as TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT.  We see the constitution class USS Enterprise and it looks remarkably like TOS Enterprise and literally nothing like the Abramsverse Enterprise.  Nothing that occurred in any of Abramsverse movies appears in STD.

Then comes Star Trek Picard.  It also takes place in the Prime Timeline, NOT the Abramsverse.  The writers of the show decided to use the one event that the 2009 movie established (the Romulan supernova) as a launching point for this show.  Everything in STP ties it to the PRIME Timeline; the pictures of Picard from the interview, the archive room, Data, Bruce Maddox, and soon to see Riker, Troi, etc.

The term “Canon Universe” is a misnomer (a wrong or inaccurate name or designation) that I’ve only ever heard you use.  No one uses that term as it does not describe anything.  The term “canon” simply describes what is accepted or recognized as Star Trek.  Every use of the word “canon” in terms of Star Trek has typically meant “as seen on screen.”  In that regard, every show and movie, to include the JJ Abrams movies, STD, and STP, is canon.  Now, you personally may define canon to mean something else, such as “as produced by Paramount Pictures” which would include TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and the 6 TOS and 4 TNG films only.  In that case, there would be Paramount Pictures Canon and CBS Canon.  Defining canon in that way is your choice, but I assure you that the vast majority of Star Trek fans would not agree with you.
 
2.  On this point, I had to go back and watch, and based on the episode by itself, you are correct Kheren.  Everything that is stated within the show says that Picard was “separated from Starfleet”, “retired”, “departure from Starfleet”, “resign your commission in protest” and “why did you really quit Starfleet”.  So, in short, I understand where you are coming from.  But where did I get this idea that Picard stood in defiance of, and threatened to resign if, Starfleet turned its back on the Romulans in their time of need?  That came from The Ready Room, hosted by Wil Wheaton.  In interview footage, Michael Chabon (executive producer) states that it was a “calculated ploy to try to force Starfleet to continue the rescue plan, and it failed.  Starfleet accepted his resignation and then he was no longer part of Starfleet.”  Executive Producer Akiva Goldsman states that Picard “Threatens to resign.  Picard is separated from Starfleet”

I have no idea if you have seen The Ready Room or have access to do so (it might be a CBS All-Access only show), and I know that you are going to say that that is not canon and that all relevant details should be within the show.  Given that you studied cinema as part of your studies at university, you know very well that many details of any film or show get lost on the cutting room floor.  Insight is often gleaned from interviews, such as the Ready Room, and supplemental material, such as original scripts.  Therefore, I do not fault you on this point; I’m merely explaining why I stated what I stated and why it is correct; technically, we were BOTH correct.

In-canon (as in just within the context of the show), I do not think this is outside the character of Picard to resign as he did.  Think about it; every time that Captain Picard dug his heels into the sand on an issue, he had a ship, he had a crew, and he had support.  Each time, he won…until now.  In Picard’s mind, he was legendary, so how could Starfleet choose to accept his resignation?  But they did.  As established in Episode 2, 14 member worlds threatened to leave the Federation and that was before Utopia Planetia was destroyed.  The Federation was beginning to fracture so it had to choose self- preservation.  I can understand how Picard was incensed; Starfleet gave their word to help and, indeed, per regulations are required to render assistance to distress calls.  The Romulans asked for help; Starfleet was duty-bound to render assistance, yet it shirked those duties.  It was no longer the Starfleet that Picard had served in for so long.  “Because it was no longer Starfleet.” So, in my opinion, it IS within his character, as a man of principle and morals that we have seen so many times, to have left Starfleet while standing up for something so important and fundamental.
 
3.  Knowing that you have not read the 3 comics that help establish the backstory helps me to understand where you are coming from.  I read books, not comics but in this case, CBS established that these 3 comics were in fact part of the backstory and considered canon, so I read them.  It is your choice to ignore them, of course, however, you cannot claim that something I said is wrong due to you limiting yourself of the available information.

For the record, as established in episode 1, the reporter states, “You left the Enterprise to command the rescue armada.  10,000 warp capable ferries.  A mission to relocate 900 million Romulan citizens to worlds outside the blast of the supernova.”  So no, the number is not 60 million; it’s 900 million, as established in canon.  That number might be low, but keep in mind that Romulans have colonized multiple worlds; they are not all clustered on Romulus.  Compared to Earth’s almost 8 billion, that’s really low, but then, all of us humans are stuck on Earth and have not begun to colonize other worlds.  Also bear in mind that evacuating 900 million wasn’t just beaming them up and flying them out of the system; it was a relocation to other worlds (plural) in other star systems, lightyears away, which takes time; apparently more time than the Romulans had to do it themselves.

4. Me having theories or trying to figure out the story before it is told is NOT me doing their work for them.  STP is not an episodic series like TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT; one episode of STP is like 10 minutes of an entire episode; season 1 is like 1 episode.  You’re criticizing something that hasn’t even finished telling the story yet.  That in itself is, I’m certain, something that you disapprove of; nonetheless, it’s the truth.  Furthermore, I ENJOY trying to find all of the easter eggs and connections and trying to figure out where it’s going before it’s revealed.  Star Trek fans have been trying to do this ever since the first 2-part episodes.  Fans of DS9 really went to town guessing at where that show was going once they figured out that there was a massive story arc. 
 
You claim that episode 2 “blew out of the water your assumptions on Picard's attendants”.  First, why are you trying to find fault and disprove my theories?  This is not a competition; they are just theories and speculation.  No one is expected to by 100% correct when it comes to hypothesis.  And no, Kheren, episode 2 did not blow my theory out of the water.  My original theory is “Remember that the Romulans had their own honor code and so it is very reasonable that some Romulans felt indebted to the man that tried to help them and therefore pledged their services to Picard for the remainder of his life.”  In no way does episode 2 negate that theory.  Now, what episode 2 does do is negate my secondary theory about Laris and Zhban; that they “would likely be common people, not military or government; maybe they were farmers.”  So what?

The 3rd Star Trek Picard comic came out on Wednesday, 29 January.  It reveals that Laris and Zhban are Tal Shiar agents undercover as farmers on a world that needed evacuated.  Picard shows up; the Romulan governor takes Picard prisoner and attempts to take over the odyssey-class USS Verity.  Laris and Zhban turn against the Tal Shiar because they see that Picard is trying to help the Romulan people while the Tal Shiar wants to fight and destroy Starfleet.  At the end, Laris and Zhban have no where to go because of the fact that they turned against the Tal Shiar, that nowhere would be safe, and as thanks for saving his life, Picard offers to let them stay has his home in La Barre, France.  Now, I know that you reject all arguments that are not on screen, but again, you cannot claim that something I said is wrong due to you limiting yourself of the available information.
 
5. The word “chateau” simply means “a large French country house or castle, often giving its name to wine made in its neighborhood.”  The Picard family vineyard was never called “Chateau Picard” in TNG, but the name, simply by definition, absolutely fits the estate as established in TNG.  Additionally, it is “La Barre, France”, not “Navarre”.
 
6.  Actually, racism is defined in three ways:

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human racial groups determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to dominate others or that a particular racial group is inferior to the others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. 

 
Now that we’ve established the actual definition of racism, as many, many people have misused the word, I am saying that the Federation is not guilty of 1 & 2 in general (there are always racist individuals of course).  I think you are saying that they are racist based on #3 and possibly of #2 at the moment that it was decided to abandon the Romulan rescue effort.  In a sense, we are both correct or both incorrect depending upon what definition is used.
 
7.  We are just going to disagree on the “The Measure of a Man” and “Photons be Free” point.  I correctly and factually stated that, “The Measure of a Man only established that Data was not the property of Starfleet and that he had the right to choose; it did not set a precedent for ALL androids.  Photons be Free only established that The Doctor had the same rights as any other author; additionally, the STP Federation had zero issues with holograms as evidenced by Index.”  I will point out that you are laying in your own opinion that those two episodes established law or policy for the entire Federation.  In point of fact, there is no evidence that support that position. 
 
8. For a Tal Shiar operation where they leave absolutely no trace, an acid suicide pill is not asinine; it’s plausible.  The acid pill is confirmed when watching closing by the chomping down of the Romulan agent and in The Ready Room review.  As far as the phaser rifle goes, actually I’m not theorizing; I’m using available evidence.  If you listen closely, you will hear Dhaj pull the trigger to fire (a click), then the weapon begins to whine BEFORE the acid is spit up.  Phaser on overload goes boom.
 
9.  I’ll totally accept that you do not want to accept the explanation as given in canon (in episode); that’s your choice.  I’m only connecting the dots as laid out in the episode.  The episode did not say that the download failed, as you stated; what they said was, “Data tried to download the contents of his neural net into B-4 just before his death; almost all of it was lost.”  ALMOST all of it was lost.  Then they said, “If you had Data’s neural net, perfecting a flesh and blood host body would be relatively simple.”  But we have that problem where almost all of Data’s code was lost.  Now here is where I think the stretching begins; Fractal Neuronic Cloning.  Recreating an entire neural net from a single neuron. 

Like I said, it’s your choice to accept or not.  Star Trek has been stretching science since the beginning; this is nothing new.  (I have to say though that space fungus is downright stupid…thanks for that one STD.)
 
In the end, you either like it or don’t.  I’m not trying to convince you to like the show, merely pointing out facts, enjoying theorizing about what’s to come, and seeing how many ways it connects back to other Star Treks. 

Instead of writing my evaluation of Episode 2 and posting this morning, I’ve responded to this.  I want to continue to post my observations, but if this tit-for-tat continues for every episode evaluation that I make, I will likely stop as I want to enjoy Star Trek, not fight about it.
 
 
 

[Athos]

                                  ** RED ALERT **
Spoilers are in this post and thread.  If you have not watched the latest episode of Star Trek Picard and wish to be surprised, do not read any further.


Episode 2 – Maps and Legends
 
Well another week means another new episode of Star Trek: Picard (STP).  This week also brought the release of the 3rd IDW Star Trek Picard which provides a little backstory.  Without further ado, let’s run it down.
 
In the IDW comics #1 & #2 for Star Trek Picard, we get to see Admiral (4-star) Picard in command of an odyssey class starship, the USS Verity.  We know from STP Episode 1 that Captain Picard “left the Enterprise to command the rescue armada.  10,000 warp capable ferries.  A mission to relocate 900 million Romulan citizens to worlds outside the blast of the supernova.”  Certainly, this is a mission worthy of a promotion from captain to admiral.  In comics 1 & 2 the Verity shows up at a Romulan colonized world, one that needs to be evacuated.  Admiral Picard beams down to meet with the Romulan governor of that colony to find indigenous intelligent beings that were being used as slave labor for the Romulans.  Picard wants to relocate them all; the Romulan governor uses that as an excuse to take Picard into custody.  Enter Laris and Zhban who are colonists; they free Picard and rise up against the governor.  As it turns out, Laris and Zhban are Tal Shiar undercover agents.  When a Tal Shir warbird decloaks and is more interested in taking or destroying the Verity and not saving the Romulan people, Laris and Zhban turn against the Tal Shiar.  Two Romulan D’Deridex warbirds from the regular military decloak to support Picard and his efforts and the Tal Shiar are defeated.  Because they turned against the Tal Shir, Laris and Zhban know that there is nowhere safe within Romulan borders.  As thanks for saving his life, Picard offers to let them stay has his home in La Barre, France.  And that is the backstory as to how Laris and Zhban came to stay at Chateau Picard.
 
Now on to the episode.  It starts out 14 years ago at the Utopia Planetia shipyards on First Contact Day (easter egg), the day of the attack.  We get to see the “synths” (synthetics) and how people interact with them.  “Good morning plastic people” and “You can’t hurt them; they are not people.”  We get to see that the synths are stored like sardines in a container when not working.  The synths all look the same; have approximately the same skin and eyes that Data had, but they are all bald.  They all dress the same, have ID tatoos (F8 for example), and potentially bar codes on the side of their heads.  We see the synths try to interact with the organics, picking up phrases (“hell yeah”) and attempt at humor which parallels Data’s own struggle with jargon and humor, though these synths are creepy about it…likely because they never blink.  Starfleet obviously sees these synths as property of Starfleet, to be used like any other tool. 
 
This is certainly not the future that Data or Soong had one day hoped for.  I know that this is a stretch, but my immediate thought is, “just how aware are these synths”?  Data was self-aware and had preferences, his own personality.  These synths appear to be much less sophisticated, so I wonder if they even cared about being put away in a container?  Data certainly would object.  As I’ve had spirited conversations regarding the topic, I’ll interject that The Measure of a Man (TNG Season 2) only established that Data was not the property of Starfleet and that he had the right to choose; it did not set a precedent for ALL androids.  It most certainly did not set a precedent for all time for synthetics throughout the Federation.  But the very defense used in Measure of a Man was exactly what occurred; a created slave labor race! 
 
Moving on…the organics are eating, F8 is standing there, and then we see his eyes flash, as if code was being transmitted.  We then see F8 take down the shields and order the satellite defenses to destroy Utopia Planetia.  F8 kills one man by breaking his neck, kills all of the others with a plasma torch turned weapon of some kind, then finally kill himself.  Hypothesis time: This only bolsters my previously stated theory that someone reprogrammed them, someone like Section 31.  What if during construction of these synths, Section 31 slipped code into each synth, waiting to activate.  In that way, only a signal to activate needed to be sent; or perhaps it was a signal to override base programming and accept new orders.  The signs are all there.
 
We then see Picard, Laris, and Zhban looking through feeds and nothing that the death squad and Dahj are erased from all security feeds.  Who could do this?  Enter the Zhat Vash.  Who are they?  We all thought that the Tal Shiar were the Intelligence Spooks, the secret police, but to the Romulans, the Tal Shiar were more like the FBI and Homeland Security combined.  The Zhat Vash are like the CIA, NSA, and MI6 combined.  They are an old group that hides behind the Tal Shiar.  They are super-secret keepers; they not only hold a loathing of synths, they fear them.  They operate without regard to treaty or jurisdiction to include within the Romulan and Klingon Empire, Gorn Hegemony, and the Federation.  So apparently it is the Zhat Vash that has kept the Romulan Empire, and possibly other powers, from developing synthetic life.  Soong developed his androids in secret; once Data went live, well he was in Starfleet and only 1 android; likely not considered a threat.
 
We see Picard and Laris beam to Dahj’s old apartment looking for clues.  Question: How did they get permission to beam directly into someone else’s apartment?  Laris uses a device that performs forensic molecular reconstruction.  Okay…this is BS.  Not only does it show where people were (kind of believable), but turns it into a 3D movie where you see and hear them.  Um, no; sorry.  Tis BS.  Reconstruction of molecules might show the last location (as we’ve seen in Voyager), but not in-motion and not with sound.  Long story short, they find out that Dahj’s sister is off-world; and that’s about it.  Not a specific location off-world, just not on Earth.
 
Back to the Borg Cube, aka the Borg Artifact Research Institute.  We learn that the cube was disconnected from the collective and hence how the Romulans got ahold of it. We see that Dr. Soji slept with Narek, the Romulan “hottie” as she puts it.  BTW…Romulans now have an English accent. And then we see Soji go off to work as, apparently, a therapist?  And Narek observes as they take prosthetics and implants off of inactive Borg drones.  A few things to pick up here; we see multiple species that have come to the Romulan’s Borg Research Station including Andorians (important as it’s the 1st time we’ve seen Andorians in the 24th century), Humans, Romulans, and for the first time, a black Trill (if you didn’t notice the spots on the researcher that Soji is helping).  I LOVE the safety briefing from the Romulan dude with the flat top; reminds me of military briefings and those safety briefings you get before going on rides at amusement parks. LOL
 
Picard now knows that he has to travel off-world in order to go find Bruce Maddox and Soji (Dahj’s sister).  His plan is to ask Starfleet for a ship but before he can ask, Picard needs to be cleared for space duty.  Picard calls on an old college from the Stargazer, Dr. Moritz Benayoun, to perform the physical.  Now, I would have thought that Dr. Crusher would have been Picard’s first call; curious that we don’t see her here, nor have I heard anything about Gates reprising her role for STP.  Anyway, the exam reveals a key piece of information.  An abnormality in Picard’s parietal lobe.  This is hinting at what Dr. Crusher tells Captain Picard about the possibility of developing Irumodic Syndrome which, in an alternate future, Picard did develop (TNG All Good Things). 
 
Now that Picard is certified, he heads to Starfleet HQ.  It looks different than when we saw it last, but then, the Breen did destroy it during the Dominion War and this is the first time seeing it since then.  Picard walks through what I can only describe as a transporter door (looks like a metal detector).  We see multiple people of multiple species walking through, going both ways.  Now these seem to be pretty cool, just walk through and poof you’re at the other end.  These transporter doors must be fixed at a certain point though.  So, imagine a place as large as Disney Land (both parks) or Disney World.  It’s all one campus but dang it takes awhile to get from park to park.  Put these transporter doors between two points and bam, you’re there.  Multiple doors equal more than one main hub.  The reason I think these must be transporting to a fixed site is that no one is saying anything and no one breaks their stride.  They just walk through.  They touch nothing on themselves; just walk through and you’re there.
 
We get to see that Starfleet has returned to the Voyager-style uniform, modernized of course.  Actually, it looks more like the uniforms in STO.  Picard walks into the atrium and we see the ST Discovery version of the constitution class Enterprise in holographic form above the atrium.  It then changes to the TNG Enterprise D; ah, home again.  Picard must check in at the front desk, he announces that he is there to see the CNC (Commander in Chief) …and the ensign has no idea who he is.  This is hilarious, but also goes to show Picard’s state of mind (he is a legend; how can this ensign not know who he is?) and the fact that Starfleet has moved on; Picard is not as well known as he once was.
 
Finally, we meet with the CnC, Admiral Kirsten Clancy.  Did you all hear the door chime?  It’s the same chime from Picard’s ready room on the Enterprise D (or a derivative of it).  Let me point out that, for the first time since Star Trek III, we see the Starfleet CnC.  And for the first time, we see the 5-pip Fleet Admiral rank.  Notice that Admiral Clancy never smiles and does not get up to greet Picard; she does NOT like Picard.  Did you also get a good look at the Starfleet combadge insignia?  It’s not exactly the same as what we saw in the alternate future from TNG All Good things, but darn close (yet another Easter egg). 
 
Picard explains his story to Admiral Clancy and pitches his request.  Admiral Clancy listens patiently, allowing him to get it all out before laying the smack-down; “The sheer Fucking hubris.  You think that you can just waltz back in here and be entrusted with taking men and women into space?  Don’t you think that I was watching the holo the other day along with everyone else in the galaxy?”  We also learn that even before the attack on Utopia Planetia, 14 member species were threatening to leave the Federation due to the decision to help the Romulans.  The implication is that after the attack on Mars, more member species were threatening to leave the Federation if Starfleet continued to put resources into helping the Romulans.  Basically, the Federation was about to “implode”.  Then the conversation turns dark… Picard asserts that the Federation does not get to decide if a species (the Romulans) lives or dies, and Fleet Admiral Clancy responded “yes we do; we absolutely do”.  WOW!  A dark Federation indeed.  Picard warns Clancy of peril only to have Clancy respond that “There is no peril here; only the pitiful delusions of a once great man desperate to matter.  This is no longer your house Jean-Luc, so do what you’re good at, go home.”  OUCH! 
 
Okay, well what did Picard expect?  Really?  I agree with Fleet Admiral Clancy; the shear hubris is mind boggling.  A retired admiral, who retired on less than agreeable terms a decade or so ago, waltzes in and asks for a ship; really!?  Not a runabout, but a small scout ship, like a Nova class ship, and a crew to command.  At the very least, the Admiral recognizes that Picard was once a great man, likely why she met with him in the first place.  A courtesy between admirals.  But of course, the request was denied.  So, Starfleet is not going to come to the rescue in this show.  This is NOT the same scenario as we see in Star Trek III when Rear Admiral Kirk went to the CnC to request a ship to search for Spock.  Rear Admiral Kirk was active duty within Starfleet; Picard was retired for over a decade.  And Kirk's request was denied, so he stole a ship (the Enterprise) right out of spacedock; Picard did not have the same access (hello visitor badge) or scenario, but did get the same results.
 
The meeting with Dr. Agnes Jurati is good background information to continue to build the story, but the thing to pick up on was that Dr. Jurati was holding Picard’s copy of Isaac Asimov’s I, Robot (easter egg).  We also get a laugh when Picard states that he never really liked Science Fiction; that he just didn’t get it.  And ha ha, she likes Earl Gray tea.  Next Picard busts out his old combadge, the same design he wore in Star Trek First Contact, and calls Raffi.  That is referring to Raffi Musiker who was Picard’s first officer during the Romulan rescue mission (we see her on the USS Verity in the comics); a former Starfleet intelligence officer and tactician. 
 
Enter Commodore Oh.  Played by Tamlyn Tomita who also portrayed Lt Cmdr Manetti on JAG (TV show).  First off, Commodore Oh is a commodore (1-star); this is the first time in the 24th century that we have seen a commodore; and she is in a gold uniform instead of command red.  That has precedence as we saw a 2-star rear admiral in DS9 “Behind the Lines” in a gold uniform.  I also noted that she is, apparently an Asian Vulcan since we see an IDIC symbol on her desk; perhaps a half-Vulcan, half-Human?  Admiral Clancy is filling in Commodore Oh as to what Picard told her.  Commodore Oh appears to be the head of Earth Security or Starfleet Intelligence.
 
Commodore Oh then calls in Lieutenant Rizzo and it gets interesting.  We learn that Commodore Oh KNEW about the operation to take out Dahj, and knew about the Zhat Vash.  Obviously, Commodore Oh is the inside help that the Romulan Death Squad got in order to beam in and out and cover their tracks.  She also states that if the need arises, she herself will take out Picard.  HOLY CRAP!  Is Commodore Oh an inside Zhat Vash agent!?  We also learn that Commodore Oh wanted Dahj for interrogation and that was the purpose of the initial fight.  Yeah, they really did screw that one up.  We also learn that they already know of Soji on the Borg Artifact Research Institute and are trying a different tact with her.
 
Then it gets REALLY interesting; when Lt Rizzo speaks with Narek, we immediately find out that Lt Rizzo is an undercover Romulan and that Rizzo and Narek are brother and sister!  Lt Rizzo reveals that Commodore Oh “has been a useful ally for a long time” and that she “can’t have [Oh] turning on us”.  We also find out that the Romulans/ Zhat Vash are looking for the location of the other synths that Maddox apparently created (the nest).  Crap, is Commodore Oh a Romulan agent?  Possibly, but not Zhat Vash.  Perhaps Commdore Oh is Section 31 working with the Zhat Vash.
 
Ah, Vasquez rocks…tying back all the way to TOS. 
 
And I still love the banter between Picard, Laris, and Zhban.  LOL They crack me up.  But since when do Romulans have Irish accents?  Notice that?  Still love the dynamic. 
 
That’s it for this week’s episode in review.  LLAP
 

[Kheren]

Funny you should quote Luke Skywalker this way; because I'm quoting him right back at you

No problem Athos, this is a discussion, not anything personal here except both of us sharing our love for Trek. And I see this as a good thing.

Let me say also here, again, that I consider that it is absolutely your right to love Picard, STD, Abrams movies or anything else. I do not look down on you because you might or might not. We are simply discussing our points of view about a TV show and at the end of the day, love it, hate it, ignore it,  to each his own. 

That being said:

1- Your confusion is quite understandable as you obviously lack key information about it all. Exactly what Abrams and Kurtzman are counting on to sell their crap. I could go on in more detail here but I will instead refer you to this excellent analysis of the so-called Prime Timeline and what it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojtX_Oz4WsU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K828aSkhRHk&t=15shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXgKnpwfz6g

So no, I am not the one who came up with canon timeline and far from being the only one to use the term. And so, you are right; the USS Kelvin is PRIME universe, not CANON universe It's the poster boy of the entire scheme.

2- Again, you are using external sources to justify what does not appear in the actual episode. Of course it is interesting and it explains your point of view about the content of the episode. But as for me, I judge the episode solely on it's own merits. And yes, a lot of stuff will end up on the cutting floor; but it is the end product that matters, not what it could or could not have been. The movie or episode is what we see on the screen, nothing else as it is the final decision of everyone involved. The rest are just ''what if'' scenarios and only fun speculation, not the actual thing. If they leave out parts that would have explained it properly, then they made a mistake ant the episode is all that bad because of it.

I agree with you, it is not outside of the character to act as he did. It is even quite beleivable. But it is just sad that this is what they have chosen to make as a show; the story of a broken, defeated old man who will be dragged into one last jaunt before he dies, thanks to the girl who is the key to everything. To me, it is a very disapointing, disheartening story, a sad swan song for one of the most inspiring characters in fiction.

3- yes CBS did; because their show is severely lacking in storytelling and moviemaking quality so they have to compensate with external material; from which they can also reap an additional profit of course. TOS, TAS, TNG, VOY, DS9, or ENT episodes never needed any comics or novels to explain any episode. Each was a self contained story, sometimes great, sometimes not so great, but every time standing for itself. If you need stuff outside of the story to support the story, then your episode is weak, incomplete and/or superficial, no way around it. Star Trek should not be like this.

900 millions, fine np; doesn't change my argument at all. Why is the Empire unable to take care of it's own, when it has been established in canon that it is equal to the Federation? At least! The Empire, as defined in canon, should be most capable to face a crisis like this all by itself, without any outside help they would not welcome due to their very wary nature, especially from a former enemy. This is the civilization that negociated a Neutral Zone over subspace radio and hid itself even with self destruct instead of capture, until forced by circumstances to be exposed (TOS Balance of Terror).You inject a lot of things to try to justify it for them but these are neither found in canon nor in the episode itself.

 Sorry my friend, but to me, the premise of this rescue operation in STP makes no sense. neither does the android revolt, nor the concept of the wonder twins. They all fly in the face of canon, if not of science, even speculative science.

4- Yes you are. The format of the storytelling is irrelevant. You make a hypothesis and then you see if the show will confirm it or come up with something else. Nothing wrong with that. It's fun in fact. Yes it's Trek tradition and is done by many fans, including me, of many franchises and stories. But all the inferences you build up is your good work alone. It has no bearing on the actual story they already wrote, filmed and that we will watch. If you are proven right, kudos to you. If wrong, no harm done. But what you come up with and inject a-priori does not give this show any quality at all. It's their story to tell and if they tell it badly, all your speculations will not change that; it is still badly told.

Yes I'm criticizing the 1st episode as part of an ungoing story and in itself. If the first chapter of a book is bad, it will be hard for the book to redeem itself afterwards, if at all possible. As a starting episode, it failed to intrigue me because the premises are wrong (Romulans welcoming and needing help, a robot revolt); as a starting episode, it failed to satisfy me because  the setting is wrong (The Federation being a dystopia); as a starting episode, it failed to hook me because the characters are wrong (replicant rip offs, broken Picard, All Female corrupted Starfleet); and as a starting episode, it failed to excite me because the portraying of events is wrong (moronic abduction operations). As a first episode of an ongoing story, it fails on all fronts for me.

Even in an arc-story, each episode should also be able to stand on it's own. If in the episode you are already laughing at the stupidity of the villains, you roll your eyes at the state of affairs in the setting, you sigh at what your favorite characters have become and yawn at the new ones, and even the filming (F""Ing lense flares) pacing and editing is bad, it does not bode well for the rest; but as it is, it should stand on it's own like any chapter in a book.


Where did you get the idea I was competing in anything here? I thought we were on a discussion thread here? Wasn't aware of any competiton involved... and not intrested in such btw.  I just wanted to point out that whatever great speculations you may come about and all the fun we may have with them, ultimately they are moot as the episodes are all fimed. This was just an example on the fly. It will be what it will be and if they have done it bad, all your speculating will not change that. In fact, you will by this further point out where they went wrong and what they should have done. That is my point with this. Nothing else.

5- You don't have to teach me French my friend; it's my mother tongue And yes it's LaBarre not Navarre. My mistake.

Still, Chateau Picard is no more a place than Chateau Moulinsart is (another wine made here in Quebec). What they did id just lazy writing doing exactly what you did; translating the word château (castle) and making it a real castle intead of looking up where Picard truly hailed from.

6- Granted. But the point is: why are they putting this up in the show? And putting it up this way? And from the Federation itself (here through a reporter and suggested by events like the aborted rescue and the synth revolt; then in episode 2 with the opening scene of the Mars attack.). Sorry but I hear these people talking this way and acting this way and I see nothing of the utopia established by Gene Roddenberry.

7- Yes there is: Starfleet General order 31 and the preamble of the Articles of the Federation to name but two examples. But these are outside sources so we should not consider them for the sake of argument.

The point was that this was the theme of the episode, what it was meant to convey through the specific cases of those characters. Yes you are right factually we see only these specific cases. But what is Star Trek if not a show to make us draw the broader picture, the implications of the one story we just saw? So yes it is an assumption but based on actual canon references. There is on the other hand no canon reference about the mistreatment and disregard of artificial lifeforms in the Federation except as plot points in those episodes (and others like Wesley's nanites and the Exocomps) to show how wrong it is (ignorance, prejudice etc) and how the Federation (through the Starfleet officers featured in the show) adresses this situation.

So when we see a ''synth revolt'' in the Federation, it makes no sense. It contradicts everything we have ever seen in canon ABOUT the Federation. EACH AND EVERY TIME an artificial sentience was discovered, it was treated with the respect due any other sentient lifeform the moment it was recognized. Now these so-called synths were MADE by the Federation to be LIKE DATA: sentient androids. So they KNEW they were creating a sentient artificial lifeform; and they would treat them like toasters and forklifts? And what about the 3 laws of robotics, integral to the positronic brain? (as Data reminds us in TNG Insurrection and referenced directly to Asimov years before by Riker in TNG Datalore).

Again, this looks like lazy writing by people who know nothing of Star Trek or even sci-fi. Fact is, all the writing team is made of writers who have zero credentials in sci-fi; the only sci-fi writer that was attached to Picard was Michael Chabon... and he came in mid-project and left before the show even premiered. Hmmmm...

Kurtzmantrek/Abramstrek is Star Trek for people that hate Star TRek made by people who don't know or care about Star Trek. I am not the one saying it: Abrams did (notably in an interview with John Stewart on the Daily Show a few years back). But I'm the one seeing it for sure.

8- No my friend, acid is inefficient and primitive. Go and spill acid and you will see it leaves a lot of messy traces and you have no way of ascertaining that it will erase all traces or even find it's target, especially by spitting; quite an inefficient delivery. So yes, I call it asinine. In the 24th century, I would carry a small photon grenade. Clic-WOOOOSH instant total disintegration as we see in TOS Elaan of Troyus (and that was a century before!). But then again, contrary to the Picard writing team, I watched Star Trek.

So Dahj herself put it on overload? How does that make sense? Or she took the safety off... and acid pushed the phaser into overload? How does that work? In canon, we have seen that it takes much more than just a click to put a phaser into overload (i.e. The Menagerie where they have to completely turn the nozzle around; later in TOS the new phasers still have a similar nozzle; in TNG the rasor-shaped phasers are different; but would they be made less secure from overload? that would make no sense.). And phasers can be knocked around, even crushed into paste and nothing happens (TOS Space Seed & I Mudd).

But would I grant you that,np;  the way the scene is built makes it so difficult to beleive when they could have done it so much better (and so much more Star Trek) to get to the same result... Why this alien-rip-off acid thing? Just to show blood and gore?

Again I call bad writing on this one.

9- You're just making my point; they want you to beleive they can rebuilt your hard drive out of a wire in your computer and implant it your brain to give you superpowers. I don't call it a stretch; I call it comic book fantasy at best, at worse an absurd mish mash of half-baked ideas from half-understood concepts that are on parr with the mushroom drive and the AI that wants to be an AI or black holes allowing time travel and magical red matter goo. When I watch Star Trek, yes I expect imagination and speculative play, but in respect of the setting established and a modicum of basic science; not some generic low grade sci-fi. When I want that, I watch Godzilla movies, not Star Trek. When I want pure fantasy set in space, I watch Star Wars, not Star Trek. I expect something else from Star Trek. 


Yes Athos, it's everyone's choice to like it or not. I'm not trying to convince you of anything either. Like you, I just stated my opinion. You stated why you liked it and what you liked about it. I stated why I did not like it and what I didn't like about it.

I did not intend any tit-for-tat. Sorry my friend but YOU are the one who made it so.

You criticized my criticism where nowhere did I took your post on with mine; I even wrote that you were absolutely right to enjoy it, even if I didn't and nothing else relating to you or anyone else afterwards. I was not giving a review of your review of the episode at all.  I reviewed the episode from MY point of view, nothing more, nothing less. Then YOU jumped on MY post. 

I'm fine with that, I love a discussion. It's all fair and square in a discussion, no complaint from my end. But don't blame me now if you don't like my responding or that I am responding. You're the one who called me out.

If you want this to be an Athos Review Thread instead, go ahead, adjust the title and I will not bring anything further then. I'll just read you and keep my own opinion to myself as it will have no place here. Or start my own thread if I feel it worthwhile to do so. But I though by the current title of this thread that this was a discussion thread; that this was the place where everyone could share his opinion.

Was I wrong?
 

[Kheren]

Well... STP season 1  episode 2.

So much I could say about this... but at this point already, it's not worth the effort. 

I will say only 2 things:

1- From the words of J. J. Abrams to Jon Stewart on the Daily Show: ''All my friends watched Star Trek but not me. I couldn't understand it. So I made Star Trek for people like me.''

STP in every detail is so far the perfect incarnation of this stance, which is the same as that of his protege, Alex Kurtzman: this is Star Trek for people who do not watch or like Star Trek made by people who do not know or care about Star Trek.


2- I invite you to take the awful STP ep 2 scene of the most ridiculous admiral in all of Star Trek history f-bombing and berating the man who saved the Federation many times over, because he has the f...ing Hubris to ask basically for a class IX shuttlecraft... and compare it to the almost exact same scene in STIII of Kirk asking an admiral for a ship to go Search for Spock.

That alone shows how far Star Trek has degraded under Bad Reboot and Screwing Hideout.


So disapointing.