List of Flaws: Abram's take on Star Trek for upcoming panel

[Jeff T]

Greetings members,

I want to tap into the vast level of Star Trek expertise here for an upcoming panel that I will be involved in.

I was just asked today to be a part of another hour long panel/discussion at PHX ComicCon in June (I'm already involved in 3).

This one however, is that I am apparently going to be the sole opposition to a team that is going to be presenting all the "wonderful things" about the JJverse.

Therefore.... to do this well... I want to have a comprehensive list of things I can present....

So my thought is... where could I find a better group to put something like this together than here with some Treksperts from Lotus Fleet? 

So... we can tackle the "alternate timeline" and the impact this has on Star Trek's history, inconsistencies, issues with characters, the ship, story, how it was filmed, errors, events in the stories, things swiped from other movies, etc...

This will probably end up in a debate format after the presentation... so the more accurate info accrued, the more effective my counterpoint could potentially be.... especially agains a team/room full of JJ fans.

Feel free to start listing your ideas, facts, suggestions, things that bothered you, etc.... about Jar Jar's versions below.

Note: this may include using footage (video/audio) of the two movies and/or interviews as well to back up points made.

I know that there are some related discussions on other threads, but I would like a focused discussion here.... if possible.

So... who is willing to jump and and help with my quest?

[Kheren]

I'll try to get back to you later with something substantial on the subject. I'll send it to you via PM.

Basically it will cover the following about the JJ Trek:


1- How it disregarded half a century of Treklore (in other words; how it ignored the basic tenets and plotlines defining ST)

2- How it totally failed to portray properly (or even beleivably) the main characters

3- How it ripped off the Trek verse itself, the so-called hommages (in other words, how it lazily exploited the fandom)

4- How it ripped-off the Star Wars universe in plot, dialog, scenes and visuals (in other words, how it exploited the ST brand to make something else).

5- How it failed in portraying science correctly even at a basic level in what is supposed to be science-fiction (in other words; how it insulted the viewer's intelligence).

6- How it failed to convey the kind of quality storytelling expected from a ST movie (in other words; how it dumbed ST)

7- How it failed in moviemaking in general (hint; the infamous lens flares)

That should give you some things to think about

Later then.

[Battle Lion]

i would cross post this to Reddit/startrek.

i bet theres loads of people who would love to chime in.

[Jeff T]

Thanks to both Fleet Admiral Kheren and Battle Lion for their helpful input thus far.

As a result, I just created an account on Reddit/startrek (as Battle Lion suggested) and posted a similar request there.

Hopefully, between these two sites some helpful facts, ideas, suggestions, examples, etc... will be generated.

Note: I may be creating a PowerPoint to compile whatever is gathered; which can include images, clips, graphs, etc.. to accompany my counter position.

Again... thanks to all that are willing to contribute! 

[Jeff T]

Here an author and Star Trek fan is taking the Abrams fiasco "Into Darkness" to task.

http://attivissimo.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/into-darkness-please-dont-call-it-star.html

Just the kind of things that I am seeking for this upcoming panel. 

Please post your own thoughts and articles that you find here for either or both films (2009 & 2013).

[BLZBUB]

The last sentence of that review is me ... to a tee! lol

 That being said, I totally agree with the authors entire review, verbatim. When I watched the 1st movie, and seen the Enterprise being constructed on earth, I thought ... WHAT? These starships are not even atmospheric flight capable ... how do they plan to launch it? Teleport to orbit?

 Then it went downhill for me from there on.

[Kheren]

Same... although for me the downslide started way sooner with:

-A one-nacelle Starfleet ship (wha...?)
-NO shields (wha...?)
-No phasers but obviously blasters (wha...?)
-Kirk's pregnant mother aboard (wasn't he supposed to be born in Iowa? What is she doing aboard a starship?)
-Kirk's father dying in space before he entered Starleet (OK forget all the novels...)
-Young Kirk in a car (what the...) knowing how to drive it (yeah right) listening to 20th century music (wha...?) on wheel-traveled road (wha...?) to crash down into a canyon (in IOWA?) to be arrested by a droid-policeman on a speeder-bike (what was the title of this movie again? Star...?)
- 23rd century Starfleet cadets on leave in a bar in IOWA (wha...?) drinking a cardassian drink (wha...?) and a Budweiser (wha...?)
- Kirk, the man who bested Khan Noonien Singh and aliens left and right in hand to hand combat, fencing, alien weaponry and even stood toe to toe with a Pon Farr crazed and spore-controlled Spock beaten up by a couple Starfleet security cadets in a bar brawl (wha...?)
- A USS Kelvin-shaped salt shaker in that same Iowa bar (wha...?)

And then came the infamous, absurd groundbuilding of the Enterprise... in Iowa... in Kirk's backyard...

The downhill drop was goign pretty fast already by then...

The second movie it was even faster: In the first few minutes we had Kirk desecrating an alien culture and for no good reason whatsoever but to rip-off Indiana Jones (guess Abrams wants to control ALL the lucrative franchises) the Enterprise underwater (with a blown up guppy fish to make the point like in those old 50's Sci Fi Z movies) and Spock down in a volcanofor no good reason (ah yes Abrams can do SW III firepit scenes too) exchanging with Kirk the most amateurish collage of old trek lines conceivable in a completely absurd dialog.

Yep, it was a looong watch... culminating in general laughter in the audience when Benedict Cumberbatch finally uttered with overacting seriousness on his so very British face: "I am Khan!" Laughter only eclipsed when Spock parodied the famous Kirk shout we were all expecting by then.

I should be able to send you a lot of stuff like this in a PM soon Jeff

[Kheren]

OK here is what I came up with. I make it available here so that others may look at it as well if they so wish. Beware, wall-of-text warning: lots of stuff packed in there!

Hope this will help you... but be aware that what's in there will make all Abrams fanboys pretty angry!

EDIT: added it in PDF in case there is some problem with the original revisable text

[Jeff T]

Great stuff there Kheren. Thanks for all of the time and effort you put into assembling all of these points.

Well... in terms of fanboy reactions.... I will be will be there with this type of info to balance out all of their gushing and praise that they are apparently going to be presenting. I was asked to do this... and initially turned it down... but they insisted... so as the old expression goes... be careful of what you wish/ask for...

Fortunately, my other panels are more positive, informative and fun.

[Kheren]

Cool. Good luck with that... but most of all, have fun debunking their arguments!

Since they asked for it, they should appreciate the thoroughness of your preparation and that you do have a lot of valid points to make, if not to them, at least for us, True Trek Fans.

As long as they stick to the likes of "it's fun, it's spectacular, it's face-paced, it's exciting, it's colorful" and such, no problem there. Everyone is entitled to enjoy whatever they prefer. But if they insist calling it Star Trek, or even good Sci-Fi, or worse, "best Star Trek ever" or "the greatness" of these pseudo-reboots, that's where this ammunition will hopefully help.

Hope to hear from you about this in the future (whenever that may be for me LOL!)

EDIT: you probably saw those; but they are good watches to inspire and relax on  the matter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTfBH-XFdSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B22Uy7SBe4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiQ9piVgtWM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REOjxvQPQNQ

And here a much longer one (thus with more goodies) for the 1st one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UT9xRPQG2Y

and the 2nd one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7GXxooffR8